Prof. Dor Abrahamson: Learning Is in the Body: How Movement Shapes the Mathematical Mind | EPS 020
What if the way we teach mathematics is fundamentally wrong, not in its content, but in its deepest assumption?
For centuries, mathematics has been understood as the paradigm case of abstract, disembodied thought. Numbers, equations, and geometric proofs seem to exist in a realm entirely separate from the physical world of bodies, movement, and sensation. And our classrooms reflect this assumption: students sit still, look at symbols on a page or screen, and are asked to manipulate abstractions in their heads.
But what if this picture is not just incomplete, but fundamentally mistaken? What if mathematical understanding is not abstract at all, but is deeply, irreducibly rooted in physical experience, bodily movement, and gesture? And what would it mean for how we teach, design classrooms, and understand intelligence and ability if this turned out to be true?
These are the questions that have driven the career of Prof. Dor Abrahamson of UC Berkeley's Embodied Design Research Lab, one of the world's leading researchers in embodied cognition, mathematics education, and the science of learning. In this episode, Dr. Steven Stolz, who has visited Abrahamson's renowned Berkeley lab in person, sits down with Prof. Abrahamson for a conversation that challenges some of the deepest assumptions built into our educational systems.
In this conversation, Dr. Steve and Prof. Abrahamson explore:
✓ Why the traditional view of mathematics as abstract and disembodied is not just incomplete but actively misleading — and what a genuinely embodied understanding of mathematical cognition reveals instead
✓ How physical experience shapes mathematical understanding from the very beginning — and what this means for how we should design classrooms, curricula, and learning environments at every level of education
✓ Why gestures are not merely expressions of thought that has already happened, but are constitutive of thinking itself — what the research on gesture and mathematical problem solving reveals about the deep relationship between body and mind
✓ The gap between intuitive embodied understanding and formal mathematical symbolism, why students so often develop genuine intuitive understanding through physical interaction but then struggle to connect this to the formal language of mathematics, and how embodied design can help bridge this gap more effectively
✓ Enactivism versus constructivism — how enactivist theory, which understands cognition as fundamentally embodied and enacted through interaction with the environment, differs from traditional constructivist approaches to learning, and what the practical implications of this theoretical shift are for mathematics education and beyond
✓ The Embodied Design Research Lab at UC Berkeley — what research is being conducted there, what innovative technologies and learning tools have been developed, and what the findings reveal about how embodied interaction can be leveraged for more effective and equitable mathematics education
✓ How digital technologies can either enhance or completely undermine the bodily dimensions of understanding — and the very real risks of designing educational technology without taking embodied cognition seriously
✓ The role of productive struggle, error, and even incorrect embodied strategies in the learning process — and how educators should think about the balance between supporting students and giving them the freedom to work through genuine difficulty
✓ Cultural and individual variation in embodied learning — if mathematical understanding is rooted in physical experience, and bodies interact with environments differently across cultures, communities, and individuals, how do we reconcile this with the supposed universality of mathematics
✓ What embodied cognition means for how we conceptualise intelligence, ability, and potential in educational settings — and why rethinking the mind-body relationship in learning has profound implications for equity, inclusion, and educational justice
Prof. Dor Abrahamson is Professor of Cognition and Development at the Graduate School of Education, University of California Berkeley, and the founder and director of the Embodied Design Research Lab (EDRL). His research spans mathematics education, cognitive science, learning sciences, philosophy of mind, and educational technology. He is one of the world's leading scholars in embodied cognition and its implications for education.
🔗 Prof. Dor Abrahamson: bse.berkeley.edu/dor-abrahamson
🔗 Embodied Design Research Lab: edrl.berkeley.edu
🌐 Show notes and resources: stevenstolz.com
This is episode six of the 2026 season of Deep Thinking, titled "Reconsidering Education." Previous episodes in this season:
✓ EPS 015 with Fred W. Stolz OAM on educational leadership and legacy
✓ EPS 016 with Prof. David Labaree of Stanford on why schools were never meant to change
✓ EPS 017 with Prof. Jack Schneider of UMass on the politics of educational evidence
✓ EPS 018 with Prof. Gert Biesta of Edinburgh on what education is actually for
✓ EPS 019 with Prof. Todd McGowan and Prof. Ryan Engley on psychoanalysis, ideology, and why we think the way we do.
Deep Thinking with Dr. Steven Stolz is produced in Adelaide, Australia and releases every second Wednesday on all major platforms. Hosted by Dr. Steven Stolz, educator, philosopher, and academic at the University of Adelaide.
